How many WSN Links installs do you run?
a survey question, votes appreciated
| How many WSN Links installs do you run? | |||
| 1 | 4 | 25% | |
| 2 | 5 | 31% | |
| 3 | 5 | 31% | |
| 4 | 0 | 0% | |
| 5-7 | 2 | 13% | |
| 8-10 | 0 | 0% | |
| 11-15 | 0 | 0% | |
| 16-25 | 0 | 0% | |
| 26+ | 0 | 0% | |
| 16 votes | |||
How many WSN Links installs do you run?
a survey question, votes appreciated
| How many WSN Links installs do you run? | |||
| 1 | 4 | 25% | |
| 2 | 5 | 31% | |
| 3 | 5 | 31% | |
| 4 | 0 | 0% | |
| 5-7 | 2 | 13% | |
| 8-10 | 0 | 0% | |
| 11-15 | 0 | 0% | |
| 16-25 | 0 | 0% | |
| 26+ | 0 | 0% | |
| 16 votes | |||
Comments on How many WSN Links installs do you run?
developer
Usergroup: Administrator
Joined: Dec 20, 2001
Location: Diamond Springs, California
Total Topics: 61
Total Comments: 7868
The recent price increase to $74 seems to have actually reduced revenue, but revenue was no longer good enough to be workable long term at the $60 level, so I'm pondering whether a lower price with only 1 install per license would be more effective. Hence the poll. Bulk license prices would be lowered to lessen the impact. The idea is to make more off of the people who have 2 or 3 installs, if there are many of them, not necessarily to make more off of the occasional 50 install buyer (since such buyers are highly appreciated). Also, this would only apply to future license purchases -- it would not change the terms of your existing purchase, it only takes effect when you purchase a new license. Please answer honestly.
'Course there are considerations beyond the poll numbers -- how many of the people who have multiple installs would actually pay for another license, compared to how many just have extra installs as an unimportant way of getting full use from their existing license? Then there's the possibility that people would simply ignore the terms and do multiple installs without paying, figuring that I'm too busy with the scripts to enforce it.
Expert
Usergroup: Customer
Joined: Aug 19, 2005
Location: England
Total Topics: 391
Total Comments: 1303
I purchased a multiple license and currently run it on 5½ sites - the ½ comes about as it is a "dog show" and will be removed once the show has finished. I will be putting it on more sites as I get around to them!
What I love about this script is it's flexibility. As mentioned I use it as a virtual dog show, for a photo gallery, knowledge base and a simple directory too.
It has been a steep learning curve for me as I am not at all knowledgeable of PHP, but I get there in the end (after many questions to the forum
Forum Regular
Usergroup: Customer
Joined: Feb 19, 2004
Location: Michigan
Total Topics: 57
Total Comments: 185
To tell you the truth I'm not sure how many licenses I own. I know you gave me some for the classifieds template, plus I bought 2-3 batches of wsnlinks (think it was 3 each per batch?) and I bought a wsnforum license when it first came out (though i just recently got around to using it)
At one time I was running about 10-15 copies, now I'm only using 3 links and 2 forums in production with a few test installs on old domains.
Member
Usergroup: Customer
Joined: Oct 25, 2004
Total Topics: 8
Total Comments: 28
Wow, price went up again? I'm not complaining, WSN has always been a good deal.
I've also enjoyed the 3 per pack deal because I'm always thinking of new uses for it, think I'm on my 4th license pack.
Many may just want to get 1 license but $74 is a lot for them, so you should restructure your pricing to lower the cost of entry. For example, a single license for $50. But also keep good bulk discounts like you mentioned.
Congrats on the new logo, that's much better!
Forum Regular
Usergroup: Customer
Joined: Jan 11, 2006
Total Topics: 48
Total Comments: 166
I've the perpetual license with 2 installations. I've plans to implement the 3rd my license allows in the future but the two live installations are requiring much research on my part so no ETA for anymore WSN Links yet.
I tend to agree with Themit in that a single, perpetual license might be an option worth offering.
Along these lines, have you tried rolling the leased license option into a service? Where script, upgrades (actually keeping the script up to date for the customer) and WSN Links hosting would be available for $xx a year. Might be a convienence people who otherwise can't host or are intimidated by the script would be willing to pay for.
Or perhaps just a script upgrade service.. I know opens up potential PITA areas but with constant and intimate exposure to the script as you (Paul) have and armed with a few decent comparison tools I expect the upgrades could be done quite swiftly.
Forum Regular
Usergroup: Customer
Joined: Feb 19, 2004
Location: Michigan
Total Topics: 57
Total Comments: 185
I think that Paul does offer an upgrade service
scripts.webmastersite.net/w...index.php?section=upgrades
developer
Usergroup: Administrator
Joined: Dec 20, 2001
Location: Diamond Springs, California
Total Topics: 61
Total Comments: 7868
Due to the fact that the yearly license buyers were relatively scarce but all dozen or so to come up for renewal so far seem to have no interest in renewing (and it annoys me that I have no way to stop them from still using the script or know if they are, I can only prevent them from downloading updates or accessing support), I think I'll try a perpetual license at $58 which covers only one install.
I'll add a spot in the customers area that lists the number of installs purchased from this point on as well.
WSN Links hosting
Much as I've thought about it, I don't think hosting is an area I can afford to get into. Running a reliable host would take a lot of time, some money, and server expertese that I don't have. Being a reseller would require still fielding all the hosting support matters and dealing with all the hosting setup matters while providing a hosting experience worse than people could get elsewhere.
As far as an upgrade service that includes template customization upgrades, I doubt there's much demand since there isn't much for the generic upgrade (or setup) services.
Forum Regular
Usergroup: Customer
Joined: Nov 16, 2005
Location: Colorado
Total Topics: 41
Total Comments: 115
Prior to WSN - one of the previous programs that I ran - was $99 for one license - for one year.
It had much "flash" - and frankly unfortunately I was drawn to it - as it loudly proclaimed "much" about itself - Over the course of two years or so I finally saw the error of my ways
(I had looked at WSN before .. but just didn't understand how all the extensive feature sets of WSN would be of such value to me. It just didn't click - I just didn't get it !)
This was a mistake ..
Interesting to note others who have also converted and are now WSN users ..
What people often underestimate is the value of their time. "Going down a road to see it at a dead end .. and not enough room to turn around"
We've all been there .. It is not all about $$$'s
The Pricing Program you have outlined - is still outstanding value for the program.
It seems from the relatively short time that I have been monitoring the forums and using WSN ... that there is a real sense of "momentum" with WSN - that momentum will hopefully keep increasing ..
A very important part of that is the "hands-on nature" ( = Paul) - Those of us who "hang out" in the forums - and are active users of WSN - realize that when the site goes down for maintenance - or other server issues happen - just how important it is to keep things "active"
Hopefully we as a group will be able to assist in finding ways to keep WSN growing and "going forward"
-DR
developer
Usergroup: Administrator
Joined: Dec 20, 2001
Location: Diamond Springs, California
Total Topics: 61
Total Comments: 7868
It seems from the relatively short time that I have been monitoring the forums and using WSN ... that there is a real sense of "momentum" with WSN - that momentum will hopefully keep increasing ..
I wish I had that feeling, or that it was reflected in sales. From my perspective, it's been flat for a couple of years and then started rolling downhill lately.
Forum Regular
Usergroup: Customer
Joined: Aug 09, 2004
Location: Chile
Total Topics: 172
Total Comments: 462
Paul,
Answering your inquiry, I do have two licences for 6 installations. I believe the actual price is a very good deal. I have just tried to purchase the bulk of 3 x $130 (to take advantage before the price increase...) but paypal is not processing for the moment. Due to lack of time I'm only running 2 installs for the moment (one alive and one to be alive), plus one WSNKB installation.
Also let me insist on one of my previous suggestions,
I strongly believe that a long term support should be payed. I believe that each new purchase should come with a free support period, but after this a (small) renewal support fee should be payed. I believe this will benefit not only you, but us, long term users that needs to know that we'll have long term support and that this does not depend only on the future sells of the script as is now the case. Also this will benefit the development of the script because we'll be more hurried on checking entirelly the script or any new version we download in order to find any bugs and report them to you or to make important suggestions.
It would be interesting to know your oppinion and the oppinions of long time users on this suggestion.
Regards.
Forum Regular
Usergroup: Customer
Joined: Jun 22, 2005
Total Topics: 91
Total Comments: 305
Hey Paul,
At the time when I was looking for a script such as yours, the alternatives that I looked at were around $400. Yes, they were flashly, but had nowhere near the flexibility that WSNLINKS has.
I even said to you that your script is way underpriced.
Yes, you should simply charge a one-time fee for the software, forget renewals.
You should give a very little discount for bulk orders.
As for the license checks, you should look into how license authentications work. I had a software that managed a membership database and it was very strict on the installations. It would contact the main license server, make sure that my license number is valid and that it is being installed on the domain that I specified. If it wasn't, I wouldn't be able to complete the install. If the authentication was successful, it would generate a key that is specific to my license/server/domain. This way, the only thing that could have been done, was to migrate the installation, but a reinstall on another domain was impossible.
Honestly, this is the best way to go. YES, those that want to install the software on another domain, PAY the price! IT IS an extremely low price to pay for what you are getting.
Support. Big companies get rich because they sell a piece of software for 10x its price, have an amazing website that attracts bigger customers (companies), and provide PAID support. For a high price too! As evil as that may sound, that is the way to go. Of course, you should stay true to 'Paul'
I know this would mean that you would disappear from the Forums and we would pay for support, but if we want to see you stick around, and for WSNLINKS to continue, then I am willing to pay this price.
Also, you could, if you wanted, provide personalized services to customers. If somebody knows what they want, but have no time or skills to learn the script, then take them under your wings. Get GotoMYPC, and you can literally work with them and setup their entire script/site framework for them. I wouldn't get into webdesign if I were you though. EIther get a company to partner with, or get the customer to get a company for themselves to do their website design. Try to find a company that knows the script and can perform a full web presence service for your client. This way, YOU build up the script and the frame perhaps, the other company finishes it.
For something like this, you should ALWAYS make sure that the client is VERY confident in what they want! If somebody only has ideas, tell them that you won't work with them. There is nothing worse than people not having a clear idea of what they want. Stressful for you, and all kinds of misunderstandings arise. GET as much in writing as possible. Basically, if somebody wants your full attention, they need to provide a detailed plan of what they are looking for. THEN, based on that writing, you decide if the client is serious or not. Then you give them an approximate startup cost. Tell them they have to deposit $250 before you begin ANY work. This way, 5 hours of work is secure for you. Then when you start working for them, and they only have 1 hour left, YOU MAKE sure that they deposit additional funds to cover future support. I cannot stress enough, that YOU DO NOT perform any work, unless they pre-paid. People have a habit of not paying for services in today's World.
Trust me, this way those that would hire you (and you would take them on), wouldn't waste your time or theirs. If you wouldn't get them to pre-pay for the service, THAT'S when the timewasting would come in. You wouldn't be able to tell a client that on a GotoMYPC session you guys spent 2 hours today, and then expect him to pay exactly for that. People tend to argue about every minute in these scenarios. So best to get them to pre-pay. Be ruthless though. As much as client sounds like a good buddy, somebody that is honest, MAKE sure that they don't get away with free time, or the "I will pay you next week" game. I know this sounds cold, but believe me, those that appreciate you, will never screw you over and will pay on time all the time. Those that show a couple of signs of B.S. excuses for not paying, dump them.
Trust me, since nobody knows the script as well as you do, they wouldn't want to piss you off.
Also, if you don't want to deal with clients, just up the support rate, and find people to outsource to. Not necessarily big companies (they charge too much), but people from these forums. Create tests, that if they pass, they qualify to support your scripts. I dunno, like 'make a site with the WSNLINKS and WSNFORUMS and whatnot in it....'.
Then just outsource the work to them. Let them deal with the clients, and you put away $25/hour for every hour they spend with the client. The downside to this, is that they WILL spend more time on a setup than YOU, which might make the client unhappy. But since a client might not know how fast YOU are, they won't have anything to compare to
In order for this to work though, you would need to change your image. You would need to turn into a software solutions provider. You would need to change the way you advertise and what's on your site. You would need to target companies that are looking for solutions and not just a script. I suggest that the webdesign company you partner with, if needed, helps you out with this new strategy.
Don't get into hosting! Major headache.
Just to give you an idea. I contacted you a while ago, because I had a client who wanted a restaurant directory site. They wanted to buy a solution from a company for $1000 + $99/month. If I had time, I would have done it for them, using WSNLINKS. I quoted them around $5000 (at $100/hour), to which they would have agreed to. That's when I posted here, looking for somebody to outsource this to. Nobody answered though.
And this wasn't even a company, just a woman who knew what she wanted to start from home. That's $5000 for about 50 hours of work. You get a single client like that every month, and you are laughing.
Anyways, another thing that could be done, is to write articles about you and your scripts. Send them about.com and to a bunch of different places. Perhaps find some way to get you into news sites as well. If somebody is willing to do this, I am willing to put my name on article in support of Paul and his work!
Sheesh. I wrote a long post, didn't I?
David
Member
Usergroup: Customer
Joined: Jun 15, 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Total Topics: 7
Total Comments: 33
Amen to David - I have to agree completely.
Price
I agree with David's pricing thoughts.
Your low price is great in a way because it causes people who research, wonder why it's so low, and stay and try to figure out the benefits of WSN scripts. A month or so ago I looked around for something similar to WSN links - figuring there would be some out there. Hotscrips is where I usually check out new scripts, and all the scripts out there didn't compare to WSN in flexibility and customization - and were much more expensive. I think your price can handle an increase, but you need to invest in some time to update your site look. Unfortunately most people judge a book by it's cover in just a few seconds.
Site Look
Your link directory script is amazing - designed for flexibility and efficiency, but... it's not attractive and not showing the true potential. Even if you just updated it a little bit (find some sites you like and follow their design), and also spotlight your well designed client sites and testimonials from clients so visitors can get an idea of what WSN can do.
Support
Free 30 days installation support and leave the support forums open free for those who are customizing to ask questions. I've never had a problem with out of the box installs.
If someone has a problem allow them to pay for your time. This would improve your customer support. Some people are dumb and ask before looking, but others just don't understand the script's many features. Not everyone's a programmer, but they all have the dream of making a great website.
WSN is the best I've seen - and nobody expects you to work for free. You need to spend less time in the forums - update the site look, and aggressively market it in script sites, google, developing partners/affiliates, and other sites that cater to web designers.
Forum Regular
Usergroup: Customer
Joined: Jan 11, 2006
Total Topics: 48
Total Comments: 166
Just some more thoughts..
I feel with some reasearch, you could carve out a side business that could both promote script sales and generate reoccuring revenue.
It would take some broad thinking though since I'm referring to things which you may have no interest, yet can be un-tapped markets.
For instance, I follow some listgroups and many sites are rather basic and a fair amount seem to get developed by a small handful of webdesigners and/or have niche market webhosts. Promoting to niche webdevelopers or hosts could get your script licensed more.
Bite the bullet and make one or more niche relevant customized designs or perhaps trade out to a designer for their own copy or discount for the script.
The diversity of the script is great for designers but while a big potential customer base, also has more competition and as already demonstrated, takes time for designers to outgrow or justify dumping a previously purchased script. Perhaps some sort of competative upgrade scheme for this broad market?
As for niche areas, for example, I barbecue and have a hand made smoker from a reputable fabrication shop (bbqpits.com). I have a site and a links directory. Cooking sites in general seem to be a heavy link trading group. Getting more specific, smoking/BBQ sites are no exception. The adsense on my (freebie, ISP hosted and essentially static and unchanged for 4-5 years) little BBQ site earns a little money -- I attribute it to it's very specific content and of course time.
A little time viewing links from a popular webring like thesmokering.com can reveal various interesting data.
I think it's clearly a case where manufactured products/buyers need to be diverse and expected if targeting a niche. As opposed to say, philosophy, of which the only obvious/main product I can think of would be books, which is saturated I'd guess.
Another area I follow, lawn and garden, many vendors use canned websites which are produced by a major player in product distribution. For instance, arinet.com which produces PartSmart, which in turn offers a turn-key website so shops can get online without knowing much about website developement. An arrangement with ARI or other commercial niche CMS/database front-ends or perhaps some of the niche web developers could be a great thing. The turn-key sites produced by PartSmart have a basic links directory but who knows, they might welcome a reciprocal or more sophisticated links solution that a more simple, focused, trimmed down version of WSN Links could provide.
One of the other link directory solutions I see quite a bit in another niche area, is a subscription based link directory service. I forget the name but can email it to you if desired. Anyhow I would say anyone using that would be fair game for a hosted solution or perhaps just appealing to the site owner's pragmatism. Most niche sites I've browsed have links as an 'extra' and do not comprise their main content or purpose. Paying monthly for a link directory I would guess is something the site owners would be interested in getting away from and could be an easy sell.
I consider WSN-Links is being presented as a jack of all trades, focused at the largest and most competative market -- basically, website designers and owner/designers. Becoming a website owner in thinking, finding a popular niche and streamlining a (or more) customized, tuned version of WSN Links could be worth the effort.
Frankly it sounds as if the free/basic version a waste of time. It's apparently not sufficiently advertising the Pro version(s) or due to it being too fully featured isn't limiting the best options that should provide incentive for upgrading to the Pro version. Perhaps limit it much, (as if creating a KISS niche version?) much more and charge in the $15-25 range for it offering perhaps a no extra cost (difference only) upgrade to Pro. Use a reputable afilliate organization to offer some small incentive for Pro customers to promote the script. After all they're probably going to be the best examples of the script capability.
Forum Regular
Usergroup: Customer
Joined: Aug 05, 2005
Total Topics: 94
Total Comments: 272
Paul, whatever you do, don't go with David's support idea above
I'm concerned you say sales are flat. For a script that is so flexible you should be seeing growth. I think the problem is this: poor marketing, a very complex script with a huge number of features, and it requires a LOT of work from the user to skin (I'm sorry, but the default templates are absolutely unusable). This has been my experience and I'm sure its mirrored by hundreds of other potential customers. You might be interested to know that the first time I came across WSN, I immediately moved on because it looked like an amateurish website. I then stumbled back into WSN at a much later date because I still hadn't found anything suitable (after trying 5 other scripts) and found myself reading the feature list in more detail...
You might want to consider re-branding the product and not associating it as a 'links script' so directly, because it can be used in other ways. For instance, one of my installs is a customised classifieds script, and yet there's hardly any mention of this across the site... that's one entire product set that you're missing out hundreds and thousands of customers on because you won't show up when they do a search for 'classifieds script'. Perhaps you could come up with 5-6 core uses and define a separate product area for each of these. Do it in a way that it minimises the amount of time spent on updating each 'product' when you make changes to the core code.
And as suggested by someone above, you need to give it a huge marketing push. Google, better and cleaner website, SEO optimised, submit articles, press releases, re-branding, promotional sales (20% off for March) etc. Drive traffic to the site.
As for support, I'd recommend a 20% fee or similar which entitles the user to support and upgrades for 12 months, after the initial 12 months from purchase is up. This will bring in recurring revenue. Youwould need to set up dedicated customer support options, eg a ticket system. My opinion is that you also need to beef up the forums support so that questions are answered and resolved quicker. Hire someone from India or similar....
Good luck.
Forum Regular
Usergroup: Customer
Joined: Oct 18, 2003
Total Topics: 32
Total Comments: 114
Paul,
To tell you the truth I would keep the 3 domain license that's a good deal and that is what enticed me to buy wsnlinks and I have recommended you program to various webmasters and they love it. I would raise you price to $90 for 3 domain license if I was you. That's $30 a domain and you can't beat that. Plus if people are wanting a single domain license offer it for $40 dollars and you could even offer bulk pricing for lets say 6 domains for 150 save $30 by buying bulk. I have been a customer of yours for a long time I know a few webmasters and I am going by what they have told me regarding your script. I agree that the price is cheap compared to other scripts out there. But you don't wanna shoot your self in the foot by eliminating the 3 domain offer I for one love that and so do many others but I am willing to pay more for a 3 domain license. Plus if you offered to a payment option for adult webmasters that would bring in a lot more buyers cause then they could promote your script in there webmaster resource sections of their adult sites. I know we talked about this before Paul and understand you position on this. Just giving my 2 cents on the matter.
Liz